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Be Unmessablewith: Creating The Life We Love With Josselyne Herman-Saccio

NWB 71 | Unmessablewith


Life throws its curveballs at us, and it can be so easy to be in the constant mode of reaction. It is time to take control of our lives and step out of the world of reaction and into the world of creation. Transformative coach and course leader Josselyne Herman-Saccio inspires us in this episode to be “Unmessablewith.” She joins Rosie Zilinskas to tell us what being unmessablewith means and how we can incorporate it in our lives so we can have the life we love. Josselyne also talks about her journey as a transformative coach and what transformation means for someone looking for it. She imparts great wisdom for women in the corporate world, overcoming challenges on showcasing their accomplishments, getting a promotion, and creating opportunities. Live your dreams now, not someday. Let Josselyne inspire you to be an unmessablewith force of nature in this conversation.

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Be Unmessablewith: Creating The Life We Love With Josselyne Herman-Saccio

Have you ever been in a situation where you’re constantly reacting and you don’t have time to sit back, analyze, and figure out what’s going on? Our guest is Josselyne Herman-Saccio, who is a transformative coach. She has worked with people from all walks of life. Her mission in this world is to empower people to live the life of their dreams now and ultimately be unmessable with. She’s going to explain to us what unmessable with means and how to incorporate it into your life so that you can have the life that you love. Stay tuned for my conversation with Josselyne.



Josselyne, thank you so much for being here with me. I’m going to start by asking you. What do you mean when you say unmessable with? I love that word.


I love that word too. People either go, “I love that word,” or they go, “What does it mean?” or, “I want some of that. I don’t know what it is, but it sounds good.” Here’s what it doesn’t mean. It doesn’t mean being tough. It doesn’t mean numbing yourself to your feelings. It doesn’t mean not letting people get to you or something like that. What it more is about is about being able to create anything you want to create with anyone at any time under any circumstance no matter what life is throwing at you, staying out of the world of reaction, and being able to stand in the world of creation and act from there. That’s what I mean by being unmessable with.


I love that definition. Thank you so much for explaining to us what it doesn’t mean because it’s as important. This show caters to women in the corporate world who are trying to continue to advance in their careers. This is such a perfect conversation because they want to create a persona that wants to continue to advance.


I saw a YouTube that you did. You were talking about owning your calendar and dating with your calendar. I wanted to touch base with you on that because women in the corporate world, not all of them, but a lot of them are in relationships or have kids. They have these full-time jobs. Employers are calling people back into the office. Women who didn’t previously have to go into the office have to go into the office. Why don’t you explain how people can create the life that they want by owning that calendar?


Let me take it and parse it out. The first thing I’ll say is I have three kids. I raised them while I was running two companies, working pretty much full-time at Landmark, leading the Forum and the Advanced Course, running a nonprofit, and being the PTA President, Co-op President, and all that stuff. I know from which I speak here that this is not theoretical. I have not experienced overwhelm ever. I can’t remember a time when I was overwhelmed. It all has to do with what I train people in. The first step of that is the context because the context in which you’re functioning is decisive. I’ll demonstrate it so that people can get it. In the context number, what is this?


Number one.


Exactly. It’s not confusing or a trick question. In the context of body parts, what is it?


It’s a finger.


In the context of direction, what is it?


You’re pointing up.


Exactly. Nothing in reality has altered, but the moment you alter the context, everything alters, like how you see things, what’s available to you, and what actions you’re going to take. Your experience of life completely alters. Especially if I changed fingers, then my experience of life would completely alter too. The context in which people are functioning, whether they be women, men, or whatever, is going to give them their experience of life.


Many people, especially women, because 70% of my clients are women, try to do it all, which is very different than having it all. Everybody wants to have it all, but how they go about that is by doing everything. That’s not the way to have it all. Having it all as a context. Inside of that, you need to be powerful at making requests, delegating, making invitations, and creating teams around you. Whether it’s a team in your family or a team at work, you have to empower people around you if you’re going to be somebody who has it all.


I do consider myself somebody who has it all if I look at my life. A calendar is a place where you can keep your life in reality. Otherwise, you have things in your head. That’s not a good place to put stuff because the minute you have what there is to do and a handle in your head, it’s also with your fears, your considerations, your irritations, and your reactions. That’s what all lives up there.


My coaching to people is, “Get everything out on your calendar. Schedule everything.” I have them, in the beginning, schedule their shower, schedule when they’re going to pay their rent or schedule when they’re going to go work out. Everything goes in the calendar so there’s nothing that exists outside of reality. I’m calling the calendar reality.


If you think about your calendar like if you use Google, Apple, or whatever you use, there are chunks. If you have one chunk someplace, you can’t have another chunk on top of that chunk because, in physics, no two things can exist in the same place at the same time. It’s a really good way to start dealing with things from a physical perspective of reality.


The extra step I go is not to put stuff in your calendar that you’re going to do but to create, and this is the part to answer your question of how they can use it to create their life, the context for everything they’re doing so you don’t have a bunch of to-dos in your calendar. You have a creation. What are you creating by going to the gym? I’m creating vitality or energy. Before I put, “Go to the gym,” I put, “Creating energy. Go to the gym.” It could be, “Creating sexiness. Hot yoga.”


If you’re paying your bills, it’s creating clarity or creating financial integrity. Whatever you’re creating, which you have to think to create, it’s not just putting stuff in there, then you have a new lens and a new context for whatever that thing is to do in your calendar. That was a big mouthful, but tell me what questions you have or yes-buts, how-abouts, or what-ifs.


I love the way you use the calendar to create whatever it is that you’re trying to do like create vitality by going to the gym. That gives it such a different context and perspective. It’s not just a chore if you’re like, “I got to go work out,” instead of, “I want to take care of my body. It’s time for me. I am going to go to the gym,” by switching that up, it changes the entire energy. I know you and I are both Landmark graduates. I did 2 or 3 courses. You taught Landmark Education, one of the courses, for 30 years.


It was 45 years. I originally did the precursor to Landmark when I was eleven.


That’s incredible. From your perspective since you’re the expert in Landmark, why don’t you tell people what Landmark is?


Landmark is a global education company. I don’t work there anymore, so I have no skin in the game for this, but it made a huge difference in my life and my family’s life. It’s a global organization that does seminars and courses around the world that are designed to cause a transformation in your view of life, your view of yourself, and your view of the circumstances so that you are set free from anything that’s limiting or constraining you.


Personally, I have produced the kind of breakthroughs you can only imagine from getting a record deal to raising $90 million to starting my business. It was all from the training that I got through my participation in those courses. I completed my participation, my life’s work, at Landmark and started on a new venture, the next chapter of my life, which was this whole art of being unmessable with. This is something that, for 25 years, I’ve loved that word. I’ve shared it. I’ve trained people in it in every aspect of my life, but it’s not a Landmark thing. It was a Josselyne thing. Since I am not there, I’ve been able to take it and run with it, which has been the joy of my life, too, to create a whole new game. That’s as exciting as anything.


That’s fantastic. I can tell you Landmark to me was life-changing. The reason I went to Landmark was because I was going through a really bad divorce. It took me four years to get divorced. When I went up to the stage to talk about my divorce, the coach was like, “So what?” I’m like, “I’m going through this horrible divorce.” He’s like, “So what?” I’m like, “You don’t understand.” He’s like, “So what?” It was 3 and a half, 4 days, or whatever it was. I went in so reactive to every single letter because I’d get a letter once a week, it seems, from my lawyer on how nothing was happening. After that, I’d get a letter and I’m like, “It’s just a piece of paper with some words in it.”


Isn’t that amazing?


It was no big deal. That’s what saved my life. That was the beginning of my personal development. I did 4 or 5 courses of theirs, and it was game-changing.


My mother was the first person to participate in that transformative work. It was when my parents were separated. This was when I was eleven. A year later, my father did it and they got back together. They celebrated 65 years together. They’re 90 and 92. Back then, what was my first glimpse of what I’m calling unmessable with was my mother because she went into the program because she was dealing with this separation, going to be a divorce, as a victim. He was the big, bad cheater. She came out of that program, and it was like a force of nature. She was creating and fulfilling. I was like, “What happened to this person?”


I didn’t have the word unmessable with, which then I later heard the word messable with and then created this whole unmessable with thing. The space of it was right there. That is the beauty of transformation. That’s why it’s been such a privilege for many years to be a transformative coach and participate with people in those kinds of breakthroughs like you had.


People walk in one world and they live in another world. That’s my intention when I work with people. They are able to shift from this world of reaction to the world of creation and they have strategies and methodologies to do it and a muscle that they can build and develop. There is no top to the mountain. It’s like brushing your teeth. You’re never going to get there every day, but they have something they can practice that’s actionable. That’s my mission.


I will tell you an exercise that I will never forget. I tell people about this all the time. It was an exercise where we had to write down our story. Everybody’s writing. Everybody’s mad, pissed off, and angry, and then you pair up with someone and you read your story. You read it again until it becomes words on paper. You’re like, “I can’t believe I spent so much energy on these words for this story.” It took the bite.


It took the charge.


The charge out of the situation. You’re like, “I’m going through this divorce. It’s a process. Eventually, I can deal with this.”


That exercise, people always go, “The story exercise.” It’s called the disappearance exercise because the intention of that exercise is to disappear suffering from your life.


That’s exactly what it is, so it works. You are a transformative coach. I know that means different things to different people. I know you already explained it, but can you explain that transformative word? When someone is looking for a transformation, what does that mean?


The simplest way of putting it is they’re looking to discover the blind spots that are limiting what’s possible in the areas of life that matter to them. It’s not that they are looking to improve. If you want to improve your well-being or something, you’d hire a trainer. They’re going to tell you how to improve your biceps or whatever people do.


This is about altering your view of life, of the circumstances, of yourself, or whatever you’re dealing with. That can only be done by discovering a blind spot that’s having you see it a certain way. Once you uncover a blind spot, you have a new view of life. You have a new set of actions that are available to you and you produce new kinds of results. Most of the time, they’re elevated high-performance results, which is what I’m committed to.


I’m a performance coach and a transformative coach. I work in both worlds whereas Landmark is all transformation. I work also in the how-to, like, what the steps are. It’s not just a spatial shift, which is incredibly powerful as you and I both know because we’ve been through it, but then what? How am I going to build this vision? What’s in the way? I am ongoingly working with people to see what messes with them and fulfilling their vision or their dream. Once you have a dream, then the question is what actions have to happen to fulfill that goal, that dream, or that vision?


I don’t care who they are. I work with billionaires to stay-at-home moms to teenagers. Stuff messes with people. We work together to unearth what’s the next layer that’s messing with them, thwarting them, stopping them, or limiting them. What’s the next blind spot that needs to be illuminated so that you can eliminate the constraint?


When I hear you say eliminate the constraint, I’m thinking about limiting beliefs. One of the things that I teach my clients and people on the show is a lot of times, we women hold ourselves back without even knowing it because we have limiting beliefs. For example, someone wanted to apply for a job and she didn’t want to apply because she didn’t have all of the job requirements in the job description. We talked about it. One of her beliefs was that she needed to follow the rules for that particular job. She was a rule follower.


When we finally talked about it and discovered that was a limiting belief that she had about herself that she had to have all the qualifications, then she was able to realize that 50% of men apply not having all the qualifications on the job description. That allowed her to get rid of that belief and then apply for a job. She got the job as well. What would you say to women, and I’m sure you’ve heard a million times, about the imposter syndrome?


It’s not just with women, but I deal with it all the time with my clients. People have no idea who they are. They live in very old conversations about themselves that were mostly generated between the ages of 3 and 8 years old. They got stuck with these views of them, like, “I’m a shy person. I’m a morning person. I’m not an assertive person.” Whatever it is, none of it is real, but we function as if that’s real like this cup is real or something. It’s not the same kind of reality.

NWB 71 | Unmessablewith
Unmessablewith: People have no idea who they are. They live in very old conversations about themselves that were mostly generated between the ages of three and eight years old.


One of the exercises I do with some of my clients that have that specific thing that they deal with, especially people who are in the business world or the speaker world, like people who go to speak and are like, “Who am I to blah,” I have them write down all their accomplishments. It could be every result they’ve produced since they were ten or whatever. We look at it and start to craft a formulation statement which we then read to ourselves in the mirror however many times we need to do it. For some people, it’s a week. For some people, it’s forever. Sometimes, I have them record it and play it for themselves, but it’s all factual. It’s how you’re looking at the facts.


I had somebody who was leading retreats for people. She kept saying, “Who am I? My life isn’t working so well.” I go, “How many people have you led retreats for?” She’s like, “800.” I go, “800 people. How many different companies have you worked with?” She’s like, “Twelve.” It’s all specific measurable stuff. I then said, “How many years have you been engaged in this whole conversation about retreats and transformative?” She said, “Twenty years.” I was like, “20 years, 800 people, and 12 different companies. How credible is that?” She’s like, “Huh.” That’s outside of somebody’s own little talk about themselves that they have. You have to get it down.


Every time I do a podcast or an interview, I have to send a bio. I had to deal with this with my own bio because when I left Landmark, I was like, “I didn’t need a bio.” Before that, I had my own entertainment company. I had Landmark. I was pretty busy. I wrote this bio and I was like, “I forgot that I did that. That’s right. I wrote three books. That $90 million was not too shabby for charity. I worked with twenty different countries in leadership.” You’ve accomplished so much in your life. You spend so much time focusing on what you haven’t accomplished that you lose sight of reality.


I love all of that. One of the things that I recommend to whoever’s looking for a job is to set up a meeting with a few of your colleagues and ask them, “What do I do? What can I improve upon?” You mentioned blind spots. That’s a way to uncover your blind spots on what you do well. You forget about that. You already do it. Don’t worry about it. If you want to develop your skills, focus on the things that they told you that you need to improve upon and then you can start uncovering your blind spots. Another thing that women don’t do well is they don’t want to brag. They don’t want to showcase their accomplishments, but men do it all the time. What would you say to a woman who is trying to get an opportunity or a promotion but doesn’t want to showcase all of her accomplishments?


I would say, “Cut it out. That’s not going to work.” If somebody came to you and didn’t give you their accomplishments, would you give them a promotion? It’s logic. You’ve got to deal with what is it about saying what’s so that is messing with you. What do you make it mean, in other words? Do you make it mean you’re bragging? No. You’re saying what’s so. Make the list, like, “Here’s the list.” If you don’t want to say it, hand it to them.


I feel like I’m in Landmark. I love it. You’re right.


You can’t take the Landmark out of the girl. I have been there since I was eleven. It’s 45 years of my life. I’ve been immersed in the world of transformation. Not just Landmark, but lots of other disciplines as well. It’s reality. When you’re related to reality, you can’t be messed with. They’re either going to give you the raise or they’re not, or the promotion or they’re not. If you are clear about what’s real, you’re not trying to convince them of anything. It is like, “I’ve been here for six years and I’ve produced X amount of sales or an increase in blah,” or whatever it is you’re measuring. Most people don’t measure. They’re in a swirl of feelings. They’re like, “I feel like I’m doing a good job. I deserve a raise.” That’s BS. You got to be in reality. What are you producing?

“When you're related to reality, you can't be messed with.” – Josselyne Herman-Saccio Share on X

That’s interesting that you say that because I have a quiz on how women are sabotaging themselves. 60% of them don’t have a strategy or a corporate roadmap. I’m working on a program that focuses on creating your two-page corporate roadmap. When people don’t have goals written down, and I’m sure you know this, they’re not as successful as people who have goals that are written down.


There are studies about it. It’s 65% less effective at accomplishing your goals if you don’t write them down.


That’s so interesting. Is it written down? Where are the facts? Collect the proof that you deserve to be there. Not too long ago, I did a talk to a group of engineering females. I talked to a woman. She’s a director of an engineering firm. She told me, “I don’t feel like I belong there.” I’m like, “You’re an engineer. You’re a director. You have engineers reporting to you. Where is the proof that you don’t belong there? You can prove that you do belong.”


You’re feeling like it is irrelevant. It’s like, “I don’t feel like a mother.” Are you a mother? Whether you feel like it or not is somewhat irrelevant. People get fascinated with their feelings and get addicted to their feelings. They are looking for some feeling to validate something they’re creating. You don’t feel like going to the gym every time you go to the gym. Take action and the feelings will often follow. If you start creating with someone in a conversation, “Here’s what I’ve accomplished. Here’s what I’m up to. Here’s what you can count on from me,” it will generate feelings.


When you’re looking to advance, whether it’s getting a raise and staying in the same position or getting a promotion, you have to create that opportunity. You have to create it in your head first.


I don’t create much in my head. I do it all out here on paper because to me, my head is a messy place. There’s too much garbage in there. I create it out here in conversation. I would call you and say, “Here’s what I’m creating. Let’s brainstorm. Let’s see. What’s my vision?” A lot of the work that I do with people is creating and having them create and activate their creation muscles.


Too much of the time, especially successful people, are really good at reacting to life. Stuff is coming at them. Fires, they got to put it out. They got to know how to deal with the kids and deal with that, but that’s a different muscle than creation. The creation muscle gets atrophied and you have this overcompensating reacting muscle.


A lot of the work that I do with people is to activate this muscle and give this one a rest so that you can have some facility and power with creating. You’re creating only in your word, as we talked about in the context conversation. As powerful as your word is is as powerful as your creations will be, which goes back to a lot of what you and I have in common. Honoring your word is the access to high performance. That’s why the calendar’s so critical for me.


I hate to be hammering on this, but the calendar is a perfect place to have your word exist. Once you say it, if you don’t put it somewhere, where does it exist? I say, “I’ll have lunch with you next week,” but unless I put that in my calendar, the chances of it happening are lower unless it’s right there. It is being able to work with your calendar and move things if you need to move them. You are moving them. Life’s not moving them. It is like, “I said I was going to work out at 7:00. I can see now I’m going to do that at 9:00.” You’re moving that block. If there’s something else there, you can’t move it, can you? No two things can exist in the same place at the same time, so you better find another place for it.


It gives you a lot of power to create. If you’re going to create the next stage of your career, whether it’s a promotion or a raise, you better get good at creating in language and then making requests. Most people suck at making requests. They’re bad at it. They have to make it like, “I deserve it because.” They give a bunch of reasons rather than, “I request a 10% raise by August 1st,” and then let the person deal with what you’re requesting.


I’m glad that you brought that up because that was going to be my next question to you as far as language. 20% of women never ever negotiate. When you don’t negotiate, you’re not creating and you’re leaving money on the table. A lot of times, women don’t take the time to figure out a powerful way, like powerful phrases or powerful words or language that make an impact.


One of the things that I notice a lot of women do is they always speak in questions at work. Instead of speaking in questions, you need to speak in statements, but you need to use that powerful language to create what you want. Can you expand more on what you use as far as language? That’s really important for this audience as far as the language that we use to go and advocate for ourselves.


In terms of requesting, whenever I work with people and they’re like, “I requested it,” I say, “What did you say?” Mostly, what they say is not a request. You say things like, “I’d like a raise.” That’s not a request. It’s like telling your spouse, “My neck hurts.” You’re not making a request and then you get pissed off that they’re not rubbing your neck but you didn’t ask for anything.


Getting good at making clean powerful requests is a skill that is critical for anybody in their life. It is not just in business, but specifically in business. When you make a request like, “I’m requesting a promotion to blah by this date,” that gives somebody something real that they can say yes or no to. Think of how you’d respond if somebody came to you and said, “I deserve a raise because blah.” I don’t ever have to deal with your request because there is no request. You’re building a case.

NWB 71 | Unmessablewith
Unmessablewith: Getting good at making clean, powerful requests is a critical skill for anybody in their life.


If you say to me, “I’m requesting a 10% raise by August 1st,” I’ve got to then deal with, “Am I going to say yes or am I going to say no, or am I going to say, “I’d like to but we had a tough quarter.” You have to be good at dealing with yeses, noes, and yes-buts, and most people aren’t. They have no muscle for it. If you start off with something that’s not a real request, it’s a statement, building a case, or an, “I’d like,” you’re going to end up with a mishmash at the end of it.


If you start off with a clean request, then the person can genuinely authentically say yes or no, or, “I’d like to, but.” You can deal with what they’re committed to. First of all, people are weird with yes. If somebody says yes, you’re like, “Are you sure?” It’s so bizarre. People are so funny about making requests. They get weird with yes, and they also get weird with no. If somebody says no, what’s the first thing that you would say to them?


Why not?


Exactly. That’s automatic. That’s the worst thing you could do if somebody says no to you because then, they have to give you reasons. Even if they don’t have them, they have to make them up. They have to build a case to justify their no. Saying, “Why not?” is the last thing I would coach people to do. The other thing people do is they take it personally. They’re like, “They don’t appreciate me. Maybe this isn’t the job for me.” Maybe that’s why they suck and their team hates them. Whatever. You end up reacting in some way, so I wouldn’t do any of that.


The coaching that I give people is when somebody says no to you from a clean request, get the no. It doesn’t mean no forever. It means no. It’s not the end of the world. It doesn’t mean they don’t like you. It doesn’t mean they don’t appreciate it. Ask me to go to lunch, or I’ll ask you, “Will you go to lunch with me on Tuesday?”




You got to say no.




I’d be like, “Thanks for considering it.”


That’s it. That is so much easier than making all of these reactions in your head that you have no control over. You’re wallowing in the story that you create in your head.


It’s like cuckoo town. A lot of times, what you get from people when you make a request is a, “Yes, but,” because people have reasons or whatever. If you ask for a raise, we’ll use this, and you say, “I’d like to, but we had a bad quarter,” or, “We’re on a raise freeze right now,” or, whatever people say, then what you would do, and this is my coaching for any request and I don’t care if it’s asking somebody on a date, asking for a raise, or whatever, it’s like, “Let me make sure I’m hearing what you’re saying. You are committed to giving me a raise. You don’t see how to do it given the finances of the company. Is that what you’re saying?”


You’ll get clear if that was a real yes. They’re like, “I am. I don’t see how to do it,” and then you could say, “Can we brainstorm on how we might be able to make this work maybe next quarter? What would have to happen in the company for it to be the condition that would make sense for a raise?” It will also be super clear that they’re not committed to giving you a raise because they’ll come up with six other reasons, like, “I’m not committed. We’ll have to see what happens.” You know you’re dealing with a no and you’re not going to be chasing something that’s not real. You always want to be listening for and speaking to people’s commitment. The only way you can hear that is if you’re out here with somebody instead of in your drama in your head.

NWB 71 | Unmessablewith
Unmessablewith: You always want to be listening for and speaking to people’s commitment. The only way you can hear that is if you’re out here with somebody instead of in your head.


It’s interesting because I read something that when men say they want to request for vacation, they tell their boss, “I’m taking next Tuesday off.” Women are like, “Would it be okay if I take next Tuesday off because I have a doctor’s appointment?”


I don’t know about, “I’m taking Tuesday off.” Maybe that’s the setup you have at work that you can do. It could be like, “I’m requesting Tuesday off. Can you let me know by 5:00 today if that going to work for you?” If they say no when you make a request, you have to be ready for somebody to say no or yes. If it’s a demand and not a request, that’s a different conversation. If it’s an inform, it is like, “I’m letting you know I’m taking Friday off.” If the boss doesn’t like that kind of communication, the consequence might be at some point you get fired because they don’t want to be told about your schedule. They want to be asked. A request inherently has the space for a yes or a no or yes-but.


I love it. What I’m getting out of this conversation is that we need to create. We need to create what we want and we need to be able to be ready for whatever’s happening and recreate.


At the next moment. Create and then die or you can react and then die. Either way, it’s going in that direction.


Have you ever come across somebody who is happy being miserable that it doesn’t matter what kind of suggestions you give them? If they have a problem, you’re like, “You could do this,” and they’re like, “Yes, but.” After a while, I’m like, “I’m not going to talk to that person because they’re happy being miserable.”


Honestly, I don’t deal with a lot of people like that because, by the time they come to me, they’re investing in their coaching. They’re hiring me to support them in fulfilling what they want. If it’s a girlfriend or a guy friend who’s moaning about something, I don’t coach people who don’t request it of me. I was going to say, “Don’t pay me,” but that’s not true. I have 30% of my clients that are pro bono. If you don’t have some skin in the game, you’re not going to be coachable. If you’re willing to throw away that money and not take their training or their coaching, shame on you, but it’s your money.

“If you don't have some skin in the game, you're not going to be coachable.” – Josselyne Herman-Saccio Share on X

Let me shift the conversation a little bit to our young women, our little girls that are 7, 8, or 9. I read a study that says that girls’ confidence peaks at age nine. Would you take the same principles that we’ve been talking about and apply them to our young girls and women? What I have noticed is that when women are coming into the workforce right out of college, they’re already coming in doubting themselves. They have a lack of confidence. I wholeheartedly believe that we as parents and educators have to go back all the way to the beginning and help these young girls and women recreate. What would the conversation change?


I don’t think so. I don’t work with young people that age. Professionally, I don’t work with them. I know some because my friends have kids and my own kids went through that age. They’re older. I don’t think it would be a difference, especially the language I use is pretty accessible. It’s not super heavy, psychological, or anything. It’s react and create. There’s a one-letter difference. You don’t need a whole thesaurus to work with me. It would be translatable. I don’t have a commitment to creating a kids program, but if I were working with somebody like you or somebody who had kids, use it with them. Test it out and see what sticks.


I know the Landmark Forum has a program for children, I believe, and then also a teen program.


Since COVID, we haven’t been doing them. I heard they were going to do a teen program for the first time since COVID in London, but I’m not sure if that’s back up and running, and maybe one in Singapore. This is all from memory. My head is not a good place to get stuff. Go to their website if you’re committed to finding out about that stuff. All my kids participated in those programs and they’re remarkable human beings. What makes them remarkable is they can create anything.


I love it. I do have to ask you. You were a pop star.


I was.


Tell me a little bit about that.


This was many years ago. This has been my dream since I was four. When I was five, my father and I were sitting in that car. I said, “Why aren’t you painting?” He said, “You can’t do your art as your career.” I said to myself, “You can’t do your art as your career,” and that was it. I was in the Forum when I was in my early twenties. All of a sudden, I saw that could be maybe not the truth. Maybe that’s a decision that I made when I was five in my infinite wisdom of five and stuck myself with it for all those years. It was so true and real. It was real like a cup is real, but loosened in that moment when I saw that.


I wasn’t even the one on stage. Somebody else was talking. I don’t even know what they were saying, but you have insights. You have a blind spot. You see blind spots in your own life. I left there with this loosened limiting belief. Within three weeks, I had a record deal. It’s magical but not mysterious because I started taking actions consistent with being a singer. I recorded a demo. I started introducing myself to people as a singer instead of a producer. I started taking action.


I scheduled a show, and then all of a sudden, I got this phone call three weeks into this experiment. This woman says, “We’re starting a female version of c. We heard you’re a singer.” I’m like, “You heard I’m a singer? How?” They had talked to like one of the 30 people I had introduced myself to as a singer in those three weeks who told them I was a singer. I ended up getting that record deal. We had a number one record in 1993. That was a dream come true. That’s when I got committed.


I was already at Landmark leading seminars. I got committed to making people’s dreams come true and developing their ability to be unmessable with because that limiting belief messed with me. For fifteen years, I thought that it wasn’t possible to be a singer and make money or have that as your career or whatever. I started my entertainment company to empower other people to fulfill their dreams in the entertainment world and then the nonprofit because I wanted to spread out from entertainment. It is the same thing in all the coaching and leading that I’ve done over the years. It has all been with that vision in mind for people to live their dreams now, not someday, and be an unmessable with force of nature in the process.


I love it. You’ve given us a ton of great content. I request that you provide us with two tips that people can apply to their careers or lives.


The first tip is connected to the calendar thing. Go through your calendar for the next week. Create a context for every item. Create why you are doing that thing. What’s the purpose of having that meeting? Is it because you have that meeting every week so you’re going through life? What are you creating out of being in that meeting? Do that with every single thing on your calendar. That’s one thing.


The other thing is I’m big on promising because promising is a powerful tool to create your life, to create a future that wasn’t going to happen. If I promise I’m going to meet you for lunch next Tuesday, something is there that wasn’t there. Promising is pure creation. On my website, I have a free game for five days that you can do called the Promise Game. I would invite people to do that game or create promises for themselves. That game sets you up on how to do it. Create a promise, like, “I’m going to bring joy to five people today.” Live from that promise that day and see what happens.

“Promising is a very powerful tool to create your life, to create a future that wasn't going to happen.” – Josselyne Herman-Saccio Share on X

I love that. Those are fantastic tips. Thank you for everything that you have shared with us. I want everybody to take what Josselyne said. It’s to create. That’s what we’re here for. It is to create a better life, whether it’s a better life in your home, your job, or your company.


It could also be in your community, your world, or whatever game you want to play. It’s all from creation.


You will be unmessable with if you do that.


I love it. Yes.


Thank you again. Do you have any final words?


Thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to express my passion for being unmessable with. This is what my life is about. I love the opportunity to have a conversation with you.


Thank you. I’m going to end where I started, which I love the word unmessable with. Thank you for creating it.



Josselyne is an incredible transformation coach. I love that she created the unmessable with term because it is a fantastic term. She leaves us with two tips. Tip number one is to create context around your calendar entries. For example, if you’re dreading going to the gym and you have on your calendar, “Go to the gym,” switch that around and create a context around going to the gym. It will become. “Living a healthy life.” Tip number two, she says to keep your promises. Promising is a very powerful tool. You can create your life that wasn’t going to be there had you not kept that promise. She also has a free game on her website called The Promise Game. With that, remember to be brave, be bold, and take action.


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About Josselyne Herman-Saccio

NWB 71 | UnmessablewithA transformative coach and course leader with more than 30 years of experience. As an Author, CEO, Community Activist, Founder of a non-profit and Coach, she has worked with all kinds of people to empower them to live the life of their dreams NOW and ultimately be unmessablewith.